In message <2841167a-312d-4fb0-b731-653bded38d6d@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups .com>, xcver <bernd.schwabe@firstdata.de> writes:
On 21 Okt., 11:13, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
Genuine question:
If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
turning up so often in the TWDA?
Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
Because people feel ashamed playing them!!! Most playgroups (I know)
react with intense table-hate against any imbued deck that turns up
resulting in no one playing it. And why should they suddenly dust one
out for a tournament.
I don't follow this.
- They were more sleazy before (because they had more powerful cards), but people played them a lot, and won a lot of tournaments. They've become *less* sleazy, so people are playing them, erm, less?
- As is evidenced by many discussions, a lot of players want to win, and care relatively little for playing an exciting deck trying out lots of new things (that might or might not work).
- Players are just fine with playing other sleazy decks. In the time since that Imbued deck, I can find several decks making significant use of Kindred Spirits. I can find weenie presence playing something like *48* presence actions and *20* Staredown, and a similar deck playing 34 presence actions, 16 Presence combat cards, and 6 Change of Target. I can find Lasombra Obt/Dom stealth-bleed. I can find Palla Grande Breed Boon. These are all well-known sleaze. Players play them. Players have always played such decks. Players aren't stopped from playing them because they're sleaze.
I can't follow an argument that says that, after bans making them harder to use, players suddenly say "Urgh, sleazy" and stop playing them, but carry on with so much other sleaze.
-- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Janne H gglund 21 October 2008 19:17:50 [ permanent link ]
Meej <djc30@comcast.net> writes:
On Oct 21, 5:13am, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
In message <f2330804-46dd-4569-bb0c-1377fbc1b...@1g2000prd.googlegroups.
, noodle...@iprimus.com.au writes:
That imbued deck is the cheesiest thing I own. It's awful and horribly
OP in my opinion. But I played it to try and prove a point - that the
banning of EE and MoM was just retarded, that Imbued are still
horribly off the power curve, and that only by addressing mechanics,
not individual cards will they be brought into line.
Genuine question:
If they're still so good, why do you think they aren't they still
turning up so often in the TWDA?
Scrolling back in the TWDA right now (prior to this addition), the first
one I find is June 2008, with 50+ decks since.
Because folks in most play groups have figured out how to muster up 2
intercept occasionally.
Even one intercept can be enough, if it can be generated consistently.
It allows one to block the Imbued pseudostealth bleeds, their main ousting method. And it also stops the madness of "I play every power card that happens to be in my hand, then I draw new powers and aquire them too." (Sure, they can stealth their power cards through with Second Sight, but they have to burn them to do it. And after the banning of Edge Explosion, conviction has become a precious resource.)
In message <3d685c38-4801-480f-9415-d10756999cce@i76g2000hsf.googlegroup s.com>, J <grail_j@hotmail.com> writes:
I can't follow an argument that says that, after bans making them harder
to use, players suddenly say "Urgh, sleazy" and stop playing them, but
carry on with so much other sleaze.
Stigma.
Lots of people developed early hate of Imbued because they didn't
understand their rules. That hate has festered.
The End.
But people hated them *extremely vociferously* while they were winning tournaments regularly, with regular calls for massive changes, up to and including the whole set being banned. The regularity of such calls has lessened rather a lot. (Note: I know they're not non-existent. But compare now with pre-ban complaints.)
So apparently people hate them now *even more* than before, but are so much quieter about it? When in the rest of the history of V:TES has intense, festering hatred resulted in less whining? When cards are broken and demonstrably power-plays with solid tournament track recrods (e.g. Return to Innocence), what other times have seen players shy away from them?
Note that problems with hatred and stigma and desire for change surrounded Return to Innocence. Yet people called for change, discussed it, won tournaments with alarming regularity with it...
-- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
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